Aperitivo with Massimo Giorgetti

Massimo Giorgetti, founder of brand MSGM and creative director for Emilio Pucci, is one of those people that is delightful to sit and chat with. And when it’s a place like Zinc, well-known for its delicious cocktails, and a well-earned aperitivo after a hard day at work then there’s nothing better. We met after fashion week in Milan, to talk about the journey that has seen him develop an internationally successful brand and take the helm of a historic Italian maison in just five years. It would appear that the secret is a natural predisposition for business, but of course real ambition helps too, the kind that naturally drives you to achieve your goals, without too much compromise. Massimo is proud of his journey, he is passionate, a true music lover with explosive energy and a minor fetish for alliteration…

MG

I’ll have a vodka ginger sour with ice.
Browsing Alla Carta
FF

Did you already know Alla Carta?
MG

I think I saw it six months ago, it’s biannual isn’t it? I really liked it. I think that magazines like this have a bright future. I am having a period of rejection towards social media at the moment... I think it is a bit degrading and belittling that fashion is judged on the basis of the number of likes or followers, so I am taking some time to study and reflect. Anyway, cheers!
FF

Cheers.
MG

I’m going to ask for some crisps because I am literally addicted. No matter what the flavour. But back to social media; so I’m in this phase of study because I started MSGM by studying myself, what I was feeling, what was in the air. I think that these social networks have created overexposure of everything and we need to be careful.
FF

Let’s talk about your roots for a minute, everything that came before MSGM. I was very surprised to discover that you studied business and accounting…
MG

Accounting is an especially technical school that gives you the notions of law, economy and finance. What I most remember are the shorthand lessons and my fantastic Italian professor who gave me a classic education and was so enlightened that instead of remembering accounting I remember the Divine Comedy and The Betrothed, things that technical students usually don’t have a clue about. I don’t think that accounting was a real choice; it was simply the closest school. I was actually very passionate about fashion even as a child. I loved colours, beautiful things… There’s a aunt and uncle story about how my uncle came to visit with a new girlfriend when I was about three. She stepped out of the car in white flares and a red fox fur. They say that I was enchanted and spent the whole evening stroking the fox and then cried all night when she left. My family were embroiderers and worked for brands such as El Charro, Best Company, Iceberg etc. I used to go into the company on Saturday and Sunday and I still remember these mountains of embroidered jumpers, I remember the roses embroidered onto El Charro jeans, I had a natural eye for detail. Then I bought Vogue, Harper’s Bazaar and that Italian magazine Donna with the fluorescent writing every Saturday throughout secondary school. Then in my last year I began to do fittings thanks to a friend I met on the beach. I started working in a boutique as soon as I finished school.
FF

How was this approach to sales and how has it influenced your work?
MG

It was incredible, it was a real school for me – I immediately learned what worked and what didn’t work in an outfit. When we opened the boxes I would immediately see what was ‘wow’ and what was ‘um’. It was 1997; it was Gucci, Tom Ford, Prada and Helmut Lang. It was an honour for me to work there, I basically worked free.
FF

And what happened in-between working in a shop and launching your own clothing brand?
MG

I did a year of civil service and then in 1999 I began working at Paola Frani. I was a showroom retail assistant but after a year they asked me to try and make a collection alone and I was there for six years. So I started consulting and in the meantime I designed a range of shirts and jumpers that was sold in the odd showroom. Let’s say that I’ve always had an entrepreneurial attitude.
FF

That’s the winning touch for MSGM in some ways, blending entrepreneurialism with a vision of fashion for everybody.
MG

Exactly. MSGM is for everybody. I always say that MSGM is the opposite of exclusive, it is inclusive and it is accessible but has a very strong content and highly researched materials and colours. What I like most about MSGM is that everybody can afford to buy a piece of clothing.
FF

There is no doubt that anybody could fall in love with an MSGM piece and immediately be able to buy it. But how is it possible to maintain such accessible prices and at the same time maintain the aesthetic and material quality of the brand? Other brands in your bracket practically cost three times the price…
MG

And we are Made in Italy too, most of the other brands produce in China.
FF

Exactly. That means something isn’t right…
MG

MSGM is highly transversal. You’ve got the trousers, the shirt, the jumper at €149 or the printed and embroidered jumper at €400, we have research and experience and an excellent price/ quality ratio. The nice thing is that there are now 15 of us in the office, another 10 in the showroom and 30 in the company. Almost 100 people earn from MSGM and then there are all the ateliers and artisans and companies we collaborate with. It is all still Made in Italy. Of course I don’t know how long this will be possible for because when you grow and begin to structure a brand then there are different income logics and margins that are hard to maintain with the Italian production system.
FF

You have seen incredible growth in just 5 years and responsible growth above all. When I think that the brand was born during a moment of crisis…
MG

It was my idea with the help of three friends. It was 2008, I was listening to MGMT’s Electric Feel on repeat and I was a fan of brand 6267. I liked the assonance of both names. Then there were my initials and those of the people who helped me create the project, the four stripes on the Coldplay album Viva la Vida... I have always loved Chris Martin, although I was a bit disappointed by the last album.
BAR

Can I bring you anything else?
MG

Let’s have another one, shall we?
FF

Yes ok!
We order another drink.
FF

Regardless of all the references, MSGM sounds good because it is pure alliteration…
MG

Think how antiquated it would have been if it were called Massimo Giorgetti.
FF

Exactly, just think of Vetements, new brands don’t need a name to communicate a clear aesthetic and have credibility.
Our drinks arrive.
MG

Cheers!

Turns to barman.
MG

Could we have some more crisps please? Back to MSGM – at a certain pointI found myself alone after a natural selection despite having initially wanted a crew with me as the designer and then an entrepreneur, product manager, buyer and journalist. My first plan was fantastic if you think about it.
FF

What most stands out, other than your natural eye for business, is that music has always been one of your constant inspirations. I read somewhere that your main goal is to translate music into fashion.
MG

I really love it. I am still buying music – the last album I bought was by General Electriks. I don’t want to be too hasty but I think it is an absolute masterpiece. I have been listening to it for four days. They are an indie group and To Be a Stranger is a masterpiece.
FF

Did you experience the indie explosion in Milan? The London Loves night at Plastic was practically a ritual for indie fans. I think I spent two years of my life there.
Laughter
MG

I only started going to Plastic in 2008, a bit late unfortunately. I still go twice a year if I can. Sergio Tavelli and Nicola Guiducci provide the soundtracks to my shows. Even now it’s moved it is still a magical place for me.
FF

Speaking of shows, what was the inspiration for your last AW16/17 show?
MG

I started from music once more, with the XX. I think they are one of the best groups of the past decade. That is why I used two Xs in the collection.
FF

The research into shoes, especially the boots, was outstanding…
MG

Yes, we played with velvet, prints and then the high-heeled combat boots.
FF

It was much ‘meaner’ this time round!
MG

Since I work at Emilio Pucci, I try very hard to differentiate the two collections. I poured my cleaner, more chic and sophisticated graphics side into Pucci and I decided to start mixing things up a little with MSGM.
FF

It must be very hard to design for two brands at the same time, one of which is your own and one of which has been a name for over 50 years. Everybody is inevitably expecting something extraordinary and very different. How do you reconcile this creatively?
MG

The truth is that you cannot split creativity into compartments; you have to make peace with it. At the end of the day it’s you, there’s only one of you and it’s your taste. You create different teams for different results. I tried to do something different with the first Pucci show but it was by making that mistake that I understood that it wasn’t me and I couldn’t try and do something that wasn’t me. I tried to make evening wear, I tried to do embroidery, but none of that represents me, so I said “Ok, I have to do what I am, no matter how it goes” and for now that seems to be going well because this latest Pucci show had excellent reviews. You know, when it’s you, you go with your instinct and you are spontaneous. When it’s a maison, a respectable brand, a huge company behind you, of course you are shyer and more afraid. I have to say that I really do thank Pucci however, because I discovered a more insecure part of me that is actually helping me to grow and mature. I was a bit cocky before and I am the complete opposite now, more like a shy kitten. I think this is very positive, for MSGM too. I have found myself in a more insecure but more creative dimension.

FF

Now you have twice the amount of people working for you, in two separate teams. How do you manage to give them strong input?
MG

Well the input is multiplied. I initially only interacted with three or four people. Now that is up to 15. It’s a nice thing to tell people, although less when you’re actually living it, but playtime is over. I’ll have two vodka sours with you now, then go to dinner with a friend and perhaps drink a bottle of wine but only because I’m going to Paris to take some time off tomorrow. If it were a normal day, I’d be setting off for Florence, having meetings, 12 hours of work, a virgin cocktail and bed at 11pm.
FF

What do you do to make space for yourself to breath and unwind?
MG

I run, on the road, in the park, on the treadmill and I’ve been doing yoga for three months. I am very satisfied with it. I went to India at Christmas and I did a week of yoga in an Ayurvedic clinic.
FF

A friend of mine had a mystic experience in a commune in India where they did yoga and silence therapy. It was a week without talking in order to learn how to listen to other people and yourself again, your thoughts. I think it must be one of the most challenging experiences that anybody could do.
MG

It must be like being mute for a week. I’m sure it helps with your concentration. My world is a chaos of fashion, art, music, cinema and an unbridled passion for TV series.
FF

What are you watching at the moment?
MG

The second season of Fargo, which is a bit disappointing compared with the first which was a masterpiece. It is an excessive exercise of style.
FF

A bit like True Detective with Matthew McConaughey…
MG

The number one spot goes to House of Cards without a doubt, perhaps alongside Mad Men. While Mad Men is based around the insecurities of one man and his internal drama, House of Cards is a portrait of how power is the vital ingredient within any relationship at work, within the family, in love or sex. It is all a question of power, even two dogs who meet in the park have to see who is the most powerful. Race doesn’t matter, nor size or sex…
FF

I love the thought behind Claire’s personality. She is so cold, almost glacial, and certainly the worse of the two in terms of scruples. But it’s almost as though the importance of cinema is being lost what with all these TV series…
MG

I think it’s down to the rhythms of modern life. The reasons are logistical. You watch a TV series on streaming when you get home from work and you can pause an episode and come back to it when you want.
FF

Well, if you are debating technology at all at the moment, watch Mr Robot. It’s quite unsettling but very good.
MG

Mr Robot? Interesting, I’ll make a note of it.
FF

Can I ask you something very frivolous. I know you have a dog called Pane (bread). Well, why Pane?
Laughs
MG

He’s a long-haired Jack Russell, he’s small and silly. To be honest I was undecided between a Doberman and a Jack Russell when I went to this breeder that had them both three years ago. But I fell in love with Pane. Pane because he was all white with a beige mark on his head and the idea was to get another one and call it Pelo (hair). But I don’t think I ever will.
FF

You live in a world of alliteration!