Breakfast with designer Marco Zanini

MZ

I really like Milan as a city. I was born here, but I am always making new discoveries and finding new reasons to love it.
FF

Have you always lived in this neighbourhood (Carrobbio, one of Milan’s most central neighbourhoods, has always maintained a double identity, combining the elegance of Milan’s upper classes and the riotous freedom of young students, Ed.)?
MZ

For the last 20 years.
FF

Why did you choose Cucchi for our interview?
MZ

I’ve been coming to Cucchi for 20 years too, so it’s become a sort of extension to my house. I live just around the corner.
FF

Do you have breakfast here every morning?
MZ

Not every morning. But I often come here for a drink or aperitivo in the evening… Whenever I meet my friends, Cucchi is always the rendezvous point.
FF

There is no denying that it is a place that inspires conversation, a hangout for anybody who passes this way.
MZ

It is one of the very few places to have all these tables outside, summer and winter. And yes, it is an icon of the neighbourhood.
The waiter arrives. I order a soy cappuccino with a croissant, while Marco orders an Americano.
FF

I have been hoping for the opportunity to meet you and interview you for some time and I’d like to start with the post-Schiaparelli period (after leaving Rochas, Marco Zanini was creative director at Maison Schiaparelli for just over a year, Ed.). What happened immediately afterwards?
MZ

What happened is that, for the first time, I took a step back and I pulled myself out. The fashion system is a cycle, a carousel that spins incredibly fast. And when you get dizzy, which I did, it’s best to climb off, get back in touch with reality and have a think. It is only when you stop that you can see things with a distance and perspective that help you to be more lucid. I realised that rather than being involved in mechanisms that weren’t a good fit, going from one French maison to another, I wanted to concentrate on a small project, something outside of the institutional channels. I think that this is what interests me, something that feels very fresh. I am convinced that when you desire something in life, and you finally focus on it, the risk is that it might just come to be.
FF

So Santoni Edited by Marco Zanini was the right project at the right time?
MZ

Exactly. A mutual friend called me and Giuseppe Santoni and sat us down together. We started talking, about his desires, about mine and, above all, about what he planned to do with his company. He started explaining how, in the long term, he wanted to focus on Made in Italy and the production of other products in order to create a more complete perception of the Santoni brand in the future. And from there came the idea of doing it together. His idea seduced me with its authenticity and sincerity. A real opportunity to do exactly what I mentioned earlier.
FF

There’s real joy to be found in taking your time over work, isn’t there?
MZ

Yes. Taking time, reflecting, more awareness of the reason behind it, more…
FF

More direct contact, perhaps.
MZ

Yes, and the desire to create more authentic content. To do something that you can’t just whip up in 45 seconds. Fashion has to face the fact that fruition and consumption through new media renders everything obsolete in 20 minutes. And even desire can fade. It’s as though there was a sensual relationship with fashion.
FF

Yes, as though it were a lover almost.
MZ

And unfortunately, it’s all over when the desire fades. That is why I say: orientating oneself and deciding to choose a smaller project can be the key.
FF

The project was launched quite discreetly, without much of a fuss. Was that a conscious choice?
MZ

Absolutely. I needed to do this project differently. It had to be more analogue. And I was convinced from the very beginning that having a paper support would help to convey a precise message. I am a book fetishist so the chance to publish one was an added value for me at a personal level. I discussed it with Angelo Flaccavento and Marco Cendron at POMO and that discussion led to the object you hold in your hand (I am leafing through the second edition of the Edited book, a selection of marble surfaces dating back to 1862, from architect Piero Portaluppi’s collection, set alongside photographs by Hill & Aubrey, Ed.)

The fashion system is a cycle, a carousel that spins incredibly fast. And when you get dizzy, which I did, it’s best to climb off, get back in touch with reality and have a think.

FF

It is a very precious object, you can see that it was made with love from a mile off.
MZ

I think that all the content that makes a brand has an added value when collected and published like this. Because the book is a noble object, it has a soul. At least, that’s how I see it. Perhaps a 17-year-old nowadays, who lives for their phone, wouldn’t share that idea.
FF

That’s a thorny issue. Apparently, the new generation don’t read anything but short statuses on an ever-updating feed, but perhaps it’s a little too early to judge.
MZ

Hands up. I’ll wave the white flag because when I catch myself being judgmental, I feel like I’m my grandfather judging my generation. I grew up with books, paper and magazines. At the age of 13, if you liked a band or something, there was that discipline that drove you to discover more, to fully explore the topic. You had to go out and hunt through music shops that never had anything. You’d do the rounds of Milan. And when you had the chance to go abroad, you’d come back with such swag.
FF

I know that you are a huge fan of The Smiths and Morrissey. When did this passion start? Have you ever seen them live?
MZ

I’ve seen Morrissey millions of times. Not The Smiths unfortunately because I was too young. I came across them by chance and it became a religion for me. It was 1987 and the group was on the verge of breaking up so you can imagine my disappointment. But from then on it became a creed. I was so obsessed that I didn’t listen to anything else for two to three years.
FF

I think we’ve all been there! (laughter) Have you ever met Morrissey?
MZ

No, but I’ve shaken his hand (laughter)
FF

Did you ever write him a letter?
MZ

No. But I’ve seen him in concert so often that it’s as though we know each other. Morrissey’s fanbase is obsessive, so I’ve seen a few of his tours all over Europe – I’m talking about 10 or more dates. This makes you part of a group that he calls ‘regulars’: people like me who are crazy enough to queue for 18 hours to get a spot in the front row. So, Morrissey always has these 30 lunatics in front of him at concerts, wherever he plays.
FF

This edition of Alla Carta is entirely focused on the concept of the self-portrait. I know you went to the Academy of Fine Arts, and you are certainly very perceptive when it comes to art. If you had to imagine a self-portrait of yourself, what techniques or tools would you use?
MZ

Well, a person’s Instagram profile is a bit like a self-portrait, more self-aware in some cases than in others. But in my fantasy, I’d probably commission my portrait from somebody else.
FF

Do you have an artist in mind? Living or dead.
MZ

I would really like to meet Wolfgang Tillmans, and the portrait could be an excuse to do so.
FF

After the Academy of Fine Arts came fashion. What drove you to throw yourself into this world?
MZ

Fashion has always been my great passion, but I didn’t want to study it because that felt limiting. I was lucky enough to have parents who supported me in everything. Perhaps parents feel more secure knowing their child is a notary or a dentist or a lawyer. I was different. I never doubted what I would grow up to do. I ended my studies by beginning to do what I loved.

I grew up with books, paper and magazines. At the age of 13, if you liked a band or something, there was that discipline that drove you to discover more, to fully explore the topic. You had to go out and hunt through music shops that never had anything.

FF

One of your first working experiences was at Versace, wasn’t it?
MZ

Yes. I started with Lawrence Steele, then spent less than a year at Dolce & Gabbana before ending up at Versace. I had wanted to work there for a while, to tell the truth. For me, while it wasn’t my personal taste, it had always represented excellence. Especially the fact that it did both prêt-a-porter and Haute Couture. Versace had a magnitude that made it incomparable to any other maison. It was 1999 and I stayed for 9 years.
FF

After a brief stint with Halton in New York, came Rochas, the brand that introduced me to your work. I had just started working in fashion and I was struck by the way that you told stories, rather than simply designing a collection.
MZ

Fashion is storytelling for me. I never design a jacket or a pair of trousers… I always try to develop an interesting story. In that sense, I don’t feel like a designer of objects, I start every collection from the general aspects. Fabrics and colours. And before designing the shapes, I try to visualise the sensations I wish to evoke in the end consumer. What am I telling them? Something dark and dangerous? Something bizarre and ironic? Or rather, as was the case at Versace, a tale of sensuality, a flashy sort of feminism. It is not by chance that the Santoni project is called Edited By, because it’s a bit like editing ideas to find out what the flavour will be at the end. It’s like getting ready to cook in the kitchen. What is the flavour that you want to remain? It’s something that takes great sensitivity and a very delicate process. But it is, to all effects, a story.

Fashion is storytelling for me. I never design a jacket or a pair of trousers… I always try to develop an interesting story. In that sense, I don’t feel like a designer of objects, I start every collection from the general aspects. Fabrics and colours.

FF

Travel is another very important concept in your work. What role does it play within the creative process?
MZ

Travel is what I do for the story. For example, when I was at Rochas, I was given a ticket for a long trip. When you are given the time to develop your story, it is likely that the story will be a success at the end of it. There is such a feverish turnover of designers nowadays… and this unhealthy mechanism does not allow the time to develop a mature or credible message, so it is important for me to go on a long trip. It gives us a chance to understand that we do this work on all fronts. We are always on the go, between companies and studios…
FF

And yet we always imagine the designer in their atelier, surrounded by tailors and people drawing.
MZ

That happens at Dior, Chanel and Versace. Nowhere else. (laughter)
FF

You are half Italian and half Swedish. Tell me a bit about this Nordic identity.
MZ

My mother is from north Sweden, four hours north of Stockholm, and my father is from Milan. I only really appreciated belonging to two countries as an adult, it didn’t interest me as a kid. Or rather, it was normal. Only as an adult do you realise that travelling with two passports is something special, because two countries are home to you. You have a double sense of belonging. It is extra special because you belong to two very different worlds.
FF

Which parts of you are more Swedish?
MZ

My love for discipline, order and efficiency. And honesty, I despise cunning. I hate people who jump the queue, it brings me out in a rash.
FF

And which parts are more Italian?
MZ

My love for aesthetics. Let’s say that I’m happy to be Swedish, but I’m happy that I was born and raised in Italy. Because Sweden is exotic to me and Italy is home and growth, upbringing. If I had been born in Sweden, I would be very rigid and boring I think. Or perhaps not, I don’t know.